1.12.2009
I'll let these two videos do the talking.. hopefully there'll be much discussion on these two as there's been much talk over whether Exodus factually happened or not. well, much talk among the canon anyways...
and the following thoughts with Mr Dwight and myself.
love to hear your thoughts!
13 comments:
Luke and Jim
Denise and I would like to thank you for a "God Moment". When you first started talking and mentioned the Canon we both felt wanted and honored that someone would talk about us while they were in Eygyt on Mount Sinai. It gave my wife goosebumps. I guess thats what it means to be part of the Ekklesia. Thanks. By the way, Jim's got a great sense of humour, gave us both a hearty laugh :)
We hope Kate is doing well.
John & Denise
Haven't had a chance to check in with you but wanted to say that the blogs have been great! So cool to see you on Mt Sinai...felt like I was there...well not really but nice anyway.
Woo-hoo. My name was mentioned on Mt. Sinai!! My soul was there, you know, when Torah was given. Just as an FYI...My name. Yael is pronounced Yah-el rather than Yay-el. But, no problem. Very cool that you thought of all of us while standing there.
Hey, I was with you right up until your buddy said you have to have it in the cross. You were at Sinai, for crying out loud, a place where a law was given that Christianity claims was defective and of no value except to point out how defective it was. We Jews value that law, the Torah. Yet your friend would exclude us from our own texts? Hey, it's not for you unless you have Jesus, too? No thanks, man. No thanks. I realize it wasn't you, Luke, but nothing like being reminded across the face, of how we are viewed by your world. Hell, we're not even seen.
I still appreciate the remembrance, but I'm still going back to my place.
well, a horizontal and vertical covenant make a cross, and as christians, that symbol resonates. not meant to be exclusive in the least nor did he or i make any claim of the sort.
and don't label me with "your world views us like that". i've worked hard not to be tucked into that blanket statement. we have to be in dialogue so that wounding phrases are eliminated from the language. if you feel one snuck into the video, point it out and say "ouch". other than that, you better stick around and not "go back to your place" as that does a disservice to the mutually enriching dialogue that we so often have.
can't learn if you're voice isn't here.
Luke. Awesome to be mentioned by you while on Mt. Sinai. I am honored like the rest.
The thing that strikes me the most is the "whether the exodus happened or not" comment. I don't really know where to go with that. There are some parts of the bible that seem obviously ridiculous, like they didn't happen and are more of a story to explain things. Adam and Eve and the apple and the talking snake and the Flood for example. I don't think I have ever thought of the exodus that way. If we believe parts of the bible are not factual events, how do we know which to pick and chose? I don't know what to do with that.
hey Doug,
yeah, not saying the Exodus didn't happen... it did in some form, but not in the numbers expressed nor in the exact WAY expressed. we know that historically, the exodus would be around the time of Rameses II, one of the baddest ass pharoahs of all time. He didn't die in the Red Sea and we have his body and tomb.
what we are, attempting, to say is that we have NO idea if that mountain was THE Sinai. in fact, trying to prove if that mount was actually Sinai, is kinda pointless. here are two compete'n places where Sinai could be:
Via Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Mount_Sinai
In Saudi Arabia: http://www.arkdiscovery.com/mt__sinai_found.htm
we know how to pick and choose because archeologists tried to go out and prove their faith in the early-1800s and throughout the 1900s. we say it's Mt Sinai but the probability of it being right isn't good. so we believe it is, and that belief is what makes it special.
Luke. Thanks. That helps. I am a bit behind on the Egypt discussion. Have been on call at the hospital quite a bit so my schedule has been a limiting factor. I've barely been able to keep up with my own blog. Then I got into a decon discussion that took a great deal of time too. I should be able to get caught up on your stuff this week and enter the discussion a bit more. I apologize. I really think you ought to come out to Andover, KS, and start a church when you are done there. I like your style and what you have to say :).
I am also reminded that my initial contact with Yael was over on Jason's site and involved the exact same topic, me saying something about my faith that at the same time negated hers. I like the input that she brings to the table and I know you do too.
Thanks for all the work you've done onposting the Egypt stuff. I promise to get caught up.
Luke - Thanks so much for the views (and your views) on Mt. Sinai.
Since our baby came I've noticed things like the sunrise (also seen it a heckuva lot more!) and point it out to Jacob. Like you said, not many people even see a sunrise or attach the holiness to it than comes when you honestly feel the presence of God. You're right - whether it's the real Mt. Sinai or not the fact that it helps you feel a connection to God is the important thing.
Anyway...When you return, if you haven't found the show already, you should check out The Naked Archaelogist. His humor and investigations would be right up your alley.
"that belief is what makes it special"
OK. I'm caught up on all your Egypt videos. Great to share a bit of the trip with you. Thanks for taking the time. And I say along with JohnT that it is interesting to see you live. Interesting in the sense that I think you are pretty cool. I'm impressed. It's sad really, but I am just a sports crazy adventure dude, and while you may not be that, you at least look the part. I don't mean to be stereotyping and labeling and judging a book by its cover and all that so sorry if I am.
About the quote. So, yeah, the belief makes it special. I get that. And the secret ingredient soup analogy is good (Somehow I missed it as I was viewing it at 5:30 this AM as I peeled myself out of bed for my training workout today). That could also get one in a spot of trouble though if taken too far. What if it becomes special that little green men are on the moon? I mean, isn't it a bit deceptive too?
hey Sue,
great illustration about watch'n the sunrise with Jacob. i can really picture that. i'll have to check out this Naked Arch. guy, you're like the 5th person that's mentioned him! thanks!
@ Doug,
sometimes first impressions are true :-). i'm sporty, but not too hyper about it as i was. still love play'n ultimate frisbee and bball when i find the time. LOVE play'n sports!!
about the belief... you're right! it can and often is taken too far. i tend to process everything through my head first and apply logic.. as best i can. however, faith is a tricky thing. 9 times out of 10 i feel something is true before i can articulate it. plus it's better to feel God's love than to be able to define it ;-)
If we believe parts of the bible are not factual events, how do we know which to pick and chose? I don't know what to do with that.(freestyle)
I feel that if you read the bible looking for the "absolute" truth you miss the fact that it has many truths on how to live life. It doesnt have to be an all or nothing idea. Thats the challenge of being a fundy, you miss the sun because you think the clouds point to rain. Arent you glad you left that house?
"But test everything; hold fast what is good." 1 Thessalonians 5:21
"Arent you glad you left that house?" (JohnT) Absolutely! And thanks for the scripture reference.
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