tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.comments2023-06-12T04:37:58.897-04:00ToothfaceLukehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03734930079710820207noreply@blogger.comBlogger1953125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-24282552794730384132016-12-19T12:44:11.098-05:002016-12-19T12:44:11.098-05:00Thanks for commenting Zac! It was a nice trip down...Thanks for commenting Zac! It was a nice trip down memory lane. I haven't moved from my criteria for dating my daughter. She's now in 2nd grade. Still haven't had to test it, thank God.Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03734930079710820207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-69263976593385985352016-12-11T22:13:30.280-05:002016-12-11T22:13:30.280-05:00Although this is quite late (according to the date...Although this is quite late (according to the date of these posts) I have to say, it was quite entertaining...as well as pleasing to see mature conversations taking place on a spectrum often left to the gladiators of a vocabulary slug fest!!! Cheers to all of you!'<br />Zachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03072578215631317387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-17215128612596594222010-06-22T18:25:59.699-04:002010-06-22T18:25:59.699-04:00We love you man! You will be missed in these parts...We love you man! You will be missed in these parts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-11208709902814823562010-06-20T08:43:19.024-04:002010-06-20T08:43:19.024-04:00Enjoyed blogging with you these past couple years....Enjoyed blogging with you these past couple years. Hope all goes well with the new blog.Yaelhttp://escapingagain.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-32828220804461253172010-06-18T19:01:35.031-04:002010-06-18T19:01:35.031-04:00Hey, interesting, I had quick look around after po...Hey, interesting, I had quick look around after posting this http://wp.me/pwy8j-15, and found your alderman post. God so showing me how he wants us to minister to others...can't belive how wrong we've been getting it for so many years! Pretty sad when you need to get healing from prayer ministry!voicemyhearthttp://wp.me/pwy8j-15noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-19194719581249114492010-06-17T16:53:29.416-04:002010-06-17T16:53:29.416-04:00Best wishes Luke !Best wishes Luke !Sabio Lantzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12963476276106907984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-78735364454705142792010-06-16T17:07:31.371-04:002010-06-16T17:07:31.371-04:00Keep in touch, Luke. Hope you land well during yo...Keep in touch, Luke. Hope you land well during your search process.Jeff Nelsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15077957635136271689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-66857610100085984902010-06-16T16:35:29.669-04:002010-06-16T16:35:29.669-04:00Kinda crazy that I stumbled upon your blog. As I a...Kinda crazy that I stumbled upon your blog. As I am a good christain for has sort of recently fallen off the wagon.KittyCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07089609329002975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-75884010272240802182010-06-16T13:57:54.095-04:002010-06-16T13:57:54.095-04:00I did not know about the Politik7 blog, I would ha...I did not know about the Politik7 blog, I would have liked to have read that one. If I did I do not believe I would have made it to this blog noting our differences in politics. This was a good post. I wish you were keeping with this blog as it is part of my routine now. I enjoy your "slap-dash" style and do not think you need to tighten up at all. The associative mind that you have is fascinating to read once you understand how to interpret your writings. Where ever you land, you will be a blessing. Take care, you will be in our prayers.Anglican Boynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-64869197315137602062010-06-16T13:54:34.355-04:002010-06-16T13:54:34.355-04:00I am not sure how I will waste time on Tuesdays an...I am not sure how I will waste time on Tuesdays and Thursdays from here on out. I will go through these posts again and relive the "good old days."Anglican Boynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-19557607835981908922010-06-11T13:38:34.658-04:002010-06-11T13:38:34.658-04:00I liked a lot of your stuff, too bad you are going...I liked a lot of your stuff, too bad you are going off-line (but we all have to live). <br /><br />You were my favorite.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-52897786733088949032010-06-09T15:05:52.689-04:002010-06-09T15:05:52.689-04:00I am just scouring the web looking to enlighten id...I am just scouring the web looking to enlighten idiotic conversations about Marcion. I have uncovered that the great Protestant New Testament scholar Adolf Hilgenfeld argued that Marcion was a form of the name Mark: <br /><br />http://stephanhuller.blogspot.com/2010/06/hilgenfelds-explanation-of-name-marcion.html<br /><br />If you look at the post that follows I show that there are no examples of people named 'Marcion' before Marcion the heretic. The point is that this has to be an artificially created 'heretical boogeyman' created by someone in Rome in the third century. <br /><br />Just thought I'd pass it along.Stephan Hullerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07712300237611095445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-66503173686002735712010-06-08T11:16:09.987-04:002010-06-08T11:16:09.987-04:00I had a long reply and blogger ate it, which is pr...I had a long reply and blogger ate it, which is probably for the better. All I can say is that I am a recovering literalist. I like how orthodoxy causes me to adjust my own thinking and assumptions instead of making up my own version of Christianity. I have to struggle. I see this now, with Luke's help. I do not view you doing the same thing, Beowulf. Maybe you are. I can only say that I do not agree with you and my experience is much different from yours. Take care.Anglican Boynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-67747025945509324812010-06-05T00:50:07.948-04:002010-06-05T00:50:07.948-04:00Everything I said in that last comment can be foun...Everything I said in that last comment can be found somewhere in Tertullian's Against Marcion. My indecision in saying things like "apparently" and such like is because I don't completely trust Tertullian. He is a shady character at times. You say you have the writings from those of the 'orthodox' tradition. So do I. And ironically it is from the writings against Marcion by those of the 'orthodox' tradition that I know whatever I know about him. God works in mysterious ways. How wonderful of him to use Marcion's greatest enemies to preserve enough of his doctrine to piece together a coherent system, even if some elements may be missing. I'm only burned by religion in the sense that I have finally realized that the Bible is not inerrant. You know that also yet choose to pretend that 'orthodoxy' is somehow true anyway. That is very sad. Anyway I didn't intend to even discuss all this on this post. I just wanted to make my first comment about how the fall story isn't really about a fall. I only mentioned these points of Marcion's interpretation as they can be reconstructed from Tertullian's writings because I was asked.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-34726473177794899662010-06-04T22:20:51.922-04:002010-06-04T22:20:51.922-04:00@ AB
I would encourage you with the following adv...@ AB<br /><br />I would encourage you with the following advice. When coming upon a new belief, seek to understand with questions.<br /><br />I think in a previous post Beowulf supplied us with link to a Marcion compiled version of Luke, no? <br /><br />Further, we don't really have evidence that any of the NT stuff is written by anyone who knew Jesus first hand, do we?<br /><br />And why don't you tell us your age and intellectual background before asking beowulf. Actually, AB, it might be nice for you to start a simple blog and share some of yourself.Sabio Lantzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12963476276106907984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-48935620217868008672010-06-04T10:25:39.942-04:002010-06-04T10:25:39.942-04:00So if we're supposed to decry the fundamentali...So if we're supposed to decry the fundamentalists, what about the heretics? That interpretation is WAY outside of anything you could make with it using the critical methods. <br /><br />You have no evidence and no direct writings of Marcion, so in a sense, you can make him into being whatever you want him to be. Being Anglican, I have the writings from the foundation of my tradition as well as those who preceded it in the evil and dreaded orthodox tradition (which I assume means Roman Catholic and not Greek Orthodox).<br /><br />All this sounds like is someone burned by religion, specifically a fundamentalist religion, and is reacting to it by stepping outside it yet wanting to remain "Christian" in some sense of the word. Is that the case? How old are you, and what is your story? I'm trying to be open here, but my directness does not serve me here online, so please take this as me trying to be open and consider things, not as a personal attack.Anglican Boynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-404825145197409902010-06-04T00:04:56.219-04:002010-06-04T00:04:56.219-04:00"speaking of Marcion, he's just as depend...<i>"speaking of Marcion, he's just as dependent on the OT as we are."</i><br /><br />That's absolutely true. And his dependence on it is not offensive in the way that 'orthodox' dependence is. Viewed from an 'orthodox' perspective I find no point or value to the story of the fall. Viewed from a Marcionite perspective I see the point and admit it has value.<br /><br /><i>"every religion has a creation story, a doctrine of humanity and what's wrong with life, and the way to fix it...i would like to know more about Marcion's view of these three categories please."</i><br /><br />creation. From everything we know he accepted the story in Genesis as is but rather than viewing what 'orhtodox' Christianity calls "the fall" as really a fall, seeing it more as an improvement, man receiving the ability to assess the creator from a moral perspective. This obviously would explain why Yahweh didn't want man to know the difference between good and evil, because then they would know which he was and would judge him for it.<br /><br />doctrine of humanity. In Ephesians 2:3 Paul makes reference to us being "by nature the children of Wrath," which of course 'orthodox' Christianity interprets as meaning that we are born condemned and with the wrath of God hanging over us because of Adam eating a fruit. Marcion seems to have understood Wrath to be a reference to the OT god himself, thus children of Wrath = children of Yahweh. (If I recall correctly Tertullian mentions this interpretation.) This sets up the need for adoption by the better God and it explains humanity's capacity for and propensity towards evil not as having fallen from its original creation in the image of Yahweh but as being a chip off the old block.<br /><br />what's wrong with life. People tend to be cruel and wicked because Yahweh who is cruel and wicked created them after his own image. And then on top of that after we die Yahweh intends to burn us all in hell for not being perfect even though its essentially his fault.<br /><br />the way to fix it. We need to become creations as Paul talks about and become children of the better God via adoption by faith. Then we become his workmanship created for good works. Then we put off the "old man" (Eph 4:22) which was created by Yahweh after his image and "put on the new man which was created after [the image of the better] God in righteousness and true holiness." (Ephesians 4:24) And of course Jesus dying to purchase us from Yahweh ensures that we will not be judged by Yahweh. As I don't buy the argument that Marcion totally rejected judgment I think he did believe Paul's statements about a judgment seat of Christ (i.e. Chrestos).<br /><br /><i>"interesting how even though you're Marcion, your fundamentalist roots aren't far behind."</i><br /><br />Really what it is, is that I have a disdain for attempting to stick with the 'orthodox' and tying to appease them and get along with them by accepting all their doctrine while yourself not believing that the Bible is inerrant and so on. Its like enabling an alcoholic. Just like someone abused by an alcoholic (or someone who was an alcoholic and had to fight hard to overcome it) would be very upset to see someone enabling one, it upsets me to see fundamentalism being enabled by liberals who know better.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-8365058948425894692010-06-03T16:34:58.126-04:002010-06-03T16:34:58.126-04:00You are just wonderful. Really. And I want to be...You are just wonderful. Really. And I want to be a parishioner in your congregation. Please find a way for that.... love you dino...<br />JJacquiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15636313112368160894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-16632218751190646732010-06-03T16:27:03.273-04:002010-06-03T16:27:03.273-04:00@ Luke
You replied to my comment, but I am not su...@ Luke<br /><br />You replied to my comment, but I am not sure if you understood my point about completely different refined abstract notions (such as "human nature")being buffered with enough caveats such that the real outcomes are the same for people with two different fundamentally different stances.<br /><br />Was that part clear?<br /><br />Maybe I will post the Prison experience.Sabio Lantzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12963476276106907984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-18108449191068482642010-06-03T16:07:36.653-04:002010-06-03T16:07:36.653-04:00Beo: your comment about liberal christianity wonde...Beo: your comment about liberal christianity wondering in Alice in Wonderland shows your true views. interesting how even though you're Marcion, your fundamentalist roots aren't far behind. i am happy you decided to tone it down and post as you did.<br /><br />speaking of Marcion, he's just as dependent on the OT as we are. if it weren't for this creation story, he'd have nothing to go on. every religion has a creation story, a doctrine of humanity and what's wrong with life, and the way to fix it. that's the basic things ya need according to those who study the world religions... more specifically Damien Keown. i would like to know more about Marcion's view of these three categories please.<br /><br />AB: i too have heard that interp, and i like it. i never really noticed the second tree in the story, and i too wonder what the consequences from eating from that would be... maybe turning everyone into existentialists! awesome!<br /><br />Sabio: i too like the Dali Lama and his view of humanity. i think it's very positive and cool, considering his history. i used to hold that view, but i feel i can't any longer. it is my hope i carry around for people, but i also hold the other view in balance as well. i would love to hear the story behind you prison health provider stint.Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03734930079710820207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-9234656395560132162010-06-03T12:05:40.764-04:002010-06-03T12:05:40.764-04:00Luke
I have always been impressed by you and your...Luke<br /><br />I have always been impressed by you and your wording of things. The last paragraph of this post summed up perfectly why I feel this way. Thanks.Tit for Tathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09454132514796693591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-29731540365942554462010-06-03T11:42:13.059-04:002010-06-03T11:42:13.059-04:00I have never met a Christian like you and I am hap...I have never met a Christian like you and I am happy I have. Your humanism reminds me of Erasmus of Rotterdam. You share the same biting wit, the same moderate stance, the same call to uphold the good in the tradition and do away with superstition. I have enjoyed reading your thoughts, arguing, and being taught by you and those who comment here. Even Sabio. I will miss it.Anglican Boynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-3031896406278706452010-06-03T11:33:15.558-04:002010-06-03T11:33:15.558-04:00Beo: "I don't need a story about a lying ...Beo: "I don't need a story about a lying God and a talking snake to teach me that human beings have the capacity to do both good and evil--that's just obvious."<br /><br />You also do not need the Old Testament, so I guess that's also obvious. I do not think it plays into the hands of the fundamentalists at all, in fact, your objections quite counter any literal interpretive stance. Allegorically understood however, it is a very rich story. <br /><br />Our pastor just did a Bible study on this and stated that Eve was driven by a good motive. She desired to become more like someone whom she loved, namely God. So eating the fruit, she reasoned, would bring her closer, not further away from God. But it didn't, it caused a death of the relationship and that's why we do not have direct contact with God anymore. Well, that's a neat and tidy explanation, and I really enjoy that interpretation.Anglican Boynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-15378934714264591352010-06-03T02:31:24.094-04:002010-06-03T02:31:24.094-04:00I'm toning down what I said when I was thinkin...I'm toning down what I said when I was thinking out loud a minute ago. Basically my position is that as long as we revere the myth for some nonexistent allegorical value we play into the hands of the fundamentalists who will require it to be literally believed and will build some immoral and evil system on top of it, such as Calvinism. It is better to prove it false, show it to be absurd and take the tools of tyranny away from these fools than to pretend it has some value it doesn't have. I don't need a story about a lying God and a talking snake to teach me that human beings have the capacity to do both good and evil--that's just obvious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9312888.post-28429499159819838522010-06-03T02:27:01.666-04:002010-06-03T02:27:01.666-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com